Lots of software has security problems. It's pretty rare that any of them show up on the front page of HN. They just tend to blend into background noise as "not interesting" unless it's particularly interesting to the community for some reason. Given that one of Job's major points for not allowing Flash on iDevices was the security of the platform, the only conclusion one can draw for having a security notice show up on the front page is that there are a lot of Adobe haters out there.
Within one sentence (and with absolutely no commentary or statements from me in any way) you successfully made the connection between Adobe and Apple. This connection is obvious and I shouldn't really have to explain it -- in other words, it's painfully obvious why a security bulletin for Flash has shown up on the front page of HN and why I've never seen one for an Apple product despite fairly wide ranging security concerns in the community about Apple products.
"Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash."
Before Jobs explicitly banned Flash from the platform, the only thing I ever remember seeing on HN regarding flash was that it performed a bit poorly under Apple's operating systems because Apple wouldn't provide the necessary APIs that would allow Adobe to make it as performant as it is under Windows (and the occasional comment regarding the Linux port that like most software ported to Linux, it was a few generations behind the times). But these complaints are pretty much the same for lots of cross platform software and generally blended into the background noise, even canvas runs poorly on most systems! One thing I don't ever recall hearing about on HN was any commentary about Flash as insecure. That all changed with "Thoughts on Flash".
Before Thoughts on Flash, I bet there was never an Adobe Flash related security posting on the front page of HN. Yet Flash has had its share of security issues, the same as anything. Which is what my link was meant to demonstrate.
In other words, it's essentially a non-issue.
My point in posting one of a million links regarding Apple security problems is that Apple is also not free from issues with its platform. Yet these never make it to the front page of HN. More importantly, Apple is rather poor at self-reporting security problems, yet here we are bashing Adobe for doing the responsible thing and reporting the problem themselves.
It's actually an interesting example of social dynamics, demonstrating how people will follow the direction a chosen leader and orient their opinions regarding their own safety to be in line with what that leader says rather than an objective review of the actual situation. People often follow leaders as a proxy for doing their own thinking. I've just demonstrated why this is dangerous. Jobs doesn't want to bring attention to the security issues of his own platforms and has tried, successfully, to direct natural concerns for that to somebody else. It's a masterful piece of political manipulation. Most politicians would sell a limb to have this kind of mind share.
My link provided no commentary, no judgment, no counter-statements, no Apple bashing or Apple praise, in fact no statements of any kind.
Yet the fact that that link is providing uncomfortable information contrary to that provided by Jobs has caused it to be annihilated by downvotes (meta-comment: pg has obviously changed something in the karma scoring because it only shows -4, but my account is down -9 since yesterday and that's the only change I can find, either the karma math is screwy, or he's experimenting with some social engineering of his own and counting all downvotes but only showing -4 no matter what. I find this interesting since, if that were true, people have continued to downvote a link to unwanted counter information even though it already stands at -4).
I actually cannot find a statement from Jobs regarding platform security other than "Thoughts on Flash". Even in response to things like this http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1495591/security-ex.... Considering that Jobs is among the more chatty CEOs of a major corporation, this omission is rather perplexing. This leads to the obvious conclusion that Jobs has taken the opportunity to call out Flash security as a red herring, to turn our attention away from the problems on his own platform. And, as is demonstrated here by bashing on Adobe for flash security, bashing on people who point out apple security, people have bought his play -- hook, line and sinker.
I provoked the response I expected to get based on the history of how the dynamics of the situations has occurred. A swarm of downvotes for a link regarding Apple security problems flies directly in the face of what Jobs has said. It's a shame he had to put "Thoughts on Flash" out there. I found his comments on Flash at D8 far more coherent and sensible and without the obvious manipulative language he used in "Thoughts". What I find a shame is how easily and gullible people who follow Jobs have been regarding the entire issue -- people who are otherwise very smart and very bright.
edit I'm actually down -10 on my karma now. I guess pg does count all downvotes even if -4 is all that's displayed.
"Yet the fact that that link is providing uncomfortable information contrary to that provided by Jobs has caused it to be annihilated by downvotes"
No, I think it was mostly the irrelevancy that got you downvoted.
"you successfully made the connection between Adobe and Apple."
Umm, what you posted was a link to something about Apple, so yeah, I think I could be justified in believing that was the connection you were trying to make.
"I bet there was never an Adobe Flash related security posting on the front page of HN."
"the only conclusion one can draw for having a security notice show up on the front page is that there are a lot of Adobe haters out there."
The only conclusion? Really? Some people might be interested because it is an unfixed vulnerability actively being exploited in software that's on 95% of PCs. Just a thought.
"Apple wouldn't provide the necessary APIs"
You're certainly not approaching this from a standpoint of hating Apple, if that's the interpretation you put on the abysmal performance of Flash on OS X for many many years. I should note that Silverlight has always had stellar performance relative to Flash on any Mac I've used them on.
I was going to post a protracted point for point response, but decided I wasn't in the mood for yet another lengthy internet battle with an obvious zealot which will probably end up in a Godwin law violation or a comparison of digital phalli or some such.
You've made some good points, some bad, I disagree with most, agree with others (and learned a few things from your response, thanks for the corrections). You've successfully demonstrated using a search engine for finding archived posts without demonstrating that those posts reached the front page. Well done.
It's obvious that Adobe is a sorry pitiful place that produces slipshod software that blights the Internet and our computers with its presence -- from the 150 slider widgets in Photoshop to Flash. This has been true for a decade or more. You'll get no argument from me.
However, Apple also has a lot to answer for. Just because its principle computing platform isn't terribly popular, so it's less likely to be a target, doesn't make it more secure ("we're secure because nobody uses us!" is not a terribly good selling point). The sec community has long standing grievances with the slow pace of security patches Apple puts out. Jobs has likewise generally remained silent on this matter.
You may continue feeling slighted by even the slightest of finger-pointing at Apple even if it's not intended as Apple bashing. A strong and vibrant Apple, as a viable competitor, is good for several industries. Hanging off of every word Steve Jobs says as perfect and without flaw is not.
"...lengthy internet battle with an obvious zealot which will probably end up in a Godwin law violation or a comparison of digital phalli or some such."
There should probably be some law about those who attempt to preemptively invoke Godwin's law.
"You've successfully demonstrated using a search engine for finding archived posts without demonstrating that those posts reached the front page."
Up until fairly recently in the history of HN, at least, pretty much any post with point count > 10 has been on the front page. Looking at the front page currently there's a couple at 3 or 6. I think most of the examples I linked were 20+ which means they were almost certainly on the front page for a while.
"Apple also has a lot to answer for."
You're the one who keeps trying to make this be about Apple. It's not, it's about a Flash exploit. Trying to force the relationship says far more then you then anything else.
"You may continue feeling slighted by even the slightest of finger-pointing at Apple even if it's not intended as Apple bashing."
I'm not slighted, I'm just pointing out that you're not really communicating in a relevant manner to the thread.
"Hanging off of every word Steve Jobs says as perfect and without flaw is not."
I agree with some things Apple does and not others. (No Flash on iPad/iPhone: agree, Adobe has yet to demonstrate the capability for Flash to run in a good manner on mobile devices, and if either of those were waiting for that neither would have been released yet. 3.3.1: sticks in my craw, even though I have a sneaking suspicion it may be best for the platform certainly not best for developers. App Store as only distribution channel: Again, good for the platform and endusers, not for developers, sideloading should be allowed.) Certainly the HN community as a whole, I'd say, has a few more vocal critics of Apple of late than vocal supporters.
Within one sentence (and with absolutely no commentary or statements from me in any way) you successfully made the connection between Adobe and Apple. This connection is obvious and I shouldn't really have to explain it -- in other words, it's painfully obvious why a security bulletin for Flash has shown up on the front page of HN and why I've never seen one for an Apple product despite fairly wide ranging security concerns in the community about Apple products.
Here's Jobs on the topic.
https://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/
"Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash."
Before Jobs explicitly banned Flash from the platform, the only thing I ever remember seeing on HN regarding flash was that it performed a bit poorly under Apple's operating systems because Apple wouldn't provide the necessary APIs that would allow Adobe to make it as performant as it is under Windows (and the occasional comment regarding the Linux port that like most software ported to Linux, it was a few generations behind the times). But these complaints are pretty much the same for lots of cross platform software and generally blended into the background noise, even canvas runs poorly on most systems! One thing I don't ever recall hearing about on HN was any commentary about Flash as insecure. That all changed with "Thoughts on Flash".
Before Thoughts on Flash, I bet there was never an Adobe Flash related security posting on the front page of HN. Yet Flash has had its share of security issues, the same as anything. Which is what my link was meant to demonstrate.
In other words, it's essentially a non-issue.
My point in posting one of a million links regarding Apple security problems is that Apple is also not free from issues with its platform. Yet these never make it to the front page of HN. More importantly, Apple is rather poor at self-reporting security problems, yet here we are bashing Adobe for doing the responsible thing and reporting the problem themselves.
It's actually an interesting example of social dynamics, demonstrating how people will follow the direction a chosen leader and orient their opinions regarding their own safety to be in line with what that leader says rather than an objective review of the actual situation. People often follow leaders as a proxy for doing their own thinking. I've just demonstrated why this is dangerous. Jobs doesn't want to bring attention to the security issues of his own platforms and has tried, successfully, to direct natural concerns for that to somebody else. It's a masterful piece of political manipulation. Most politicians would sell a limb to have this kind of mind share.
My link provided no commentary, no judgment, no counter-statements, no Apple bashing or Apple praise, in fact no statements of any kind.
Yet the fact that that link is providing uncomfortable information contrary to that provided by Jobs has caused it to be annihilated by downvotes (meta-comment: pg has obviously changed something in the karma scoring because it only shows -4, but my account is down -9 since yesterday and that's the only change I can find, either the karma math is screwy, or he's experimenting with some social engineering of his own and counting all downvotes but only showing -4 no matter what. I find this interesting since, if that were true, people have continued to downvote a link to unwanted counter information even though it already stands at -4).
I actually cannot find a statement from Jobs regarding platform security other than "Thoughts on Flash". Even in response to things like this http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1495591/security-ex.... Considering that Jobs is among the more chatty CEOs of a major corporation, this omission is rather perplexing. This leads to the obvious conclusion that Jobs has taken the opportunity to call out Flash security as a red herring, to turn our attention away from the problems on his own platform. And, as is demonstrated here by bashing on Adobe for flash security, bashing on people who point out apple security, people have bought his play -- hook, line and sinker.
I provoked the response I expected to get based on the history of how the dynamics of the situations has occurred. A swarm of downvotes for a link regarding Apple security problems flies directly in the face of what Jobs has said. It's a shame he had to put "Thoughts on Flash" out there. I found his comments on Flash at D8 far more coherent and sensible and without the obvious manipulative language he used in "Thoughts". What I find a shame is how easily and gullible people who follow Jobs have been regarding the entire issue -- people who are otherwise very smart and very bright.
edit I'm actually down -10 on my karma now. I guess pg does count all downvotes even if -4 is all that's displayed.
edit 2 this poor comment was similarly in negative territory as well, further reinforcing my point. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1406477