First, what is programming? Programming is basically writing out instructions with names, verbs, if/else's, and loops. The latter three are not much different in all languages, but names! The programs we wrote -- the style, details, and effectiveness -- depend on the understanding of entities behind those objects. For example, the name Michael, if we assume he is intelligent and equipped with common sense, we may choose to instruct him in a high-level or declarative way. But if we assume he is dumb we may have to instruct him in a more detailed and imperative way and often it is the easier and more effective way. The state of programming: All entities are in fact very dumb, but programming languages often disguise it and make you think they are smart (smarter than they really are). If you don't care about efficiency and even how it is actually done, as many frameworks and languages designer wished, the more deceivingly smart the entities appear, the better, so the programmer can program without worry about how it is actually being done with a good conscience. But as soon as the programmer start to care about how it is actually get done, or as soon as they desire some control -- out-of the inflated self-respect that they are smarter than the language and framework, then they need the understanding of their entities in details. With most higher level languages (with C#, the libraries, and framework), the objects are very complex and it is difficult or practically impossible to fully understand (due to the fact that we are only human), so the programmers are often doing programming with an assumed understanding (in reality it is just a religion). It is still programming, but programming with trust and faith. With C (the language, not some libraries or framework) however, the subjects are simple -- 1-byte integer or 8-byte integer, 4 -byte float or 8-byte float, and even names representing functions are simple entities. It is possible to fully understand your entities when programming in C. They are dumb as minions, but you are in 100% control. Only the experience of programming with entities that you truly understand and fully in-control can reward you with the certain zen of programming -- the demigod-like joy of producing and enjoying fruits that you are in control of near 100% of its creation.
So, it depends on your objectives in programming. You don't need C or even C# if all you care is a job or an end objective (in fact, you would very much like to skip the programming part if possible). But if you care about programming as an activity of love, then the experience with C -- especially the one with few dependence of third-party libraries -- is uniquely rewarding.
I'm assuming you wrote this comment as a C programmer (or have used C in a professional setting?)
If so - how did you get into that? I'm really looking to _build_ something rather than just going through a book or tutorial (although they have a place and time). '
I suppose my objectives are learning as much as I can, and (ideally) having a day job working with that technology. All of this is more or less driven by interest and enjoyment of programming.
It will be a frustrating experience to learn C with a mindset of career. The mindset of career is about results, C is often not a shortcut to most superficial (visible) results. (It is a shortcut to real programming skill though, but a real skill without paper career record doesn't mean much for your career.)
But if you can afford a hobby and have the luxury of certain time at disposal, then I would suggest you to approach C as if you are picking up a leisure book. You learn more and enjoys more that way. You only need a day or two with a book or tutorial. Then you should simply start solving simple problems. If your math is OK, I would suggest project Euler. Programming is mostly common sense, you learn through practicing. Without the career mindset, you are very likely to enjoy the practice.
Now assume you acquired your career some other way (Java for example) and now you gained certain freedom in your job, and with the unique experence from C, you can try make decisions based on your understanding and common sense. I choose C in my work only because I have that freedom (but that freedom was not gained via C).
I always think of people who use C professionally as people who have been doing it for a _very_ long time and know a lot about it. In that situation it would be exceptionally hard to find any employment working with C.
I've always been hesitant at many Project Euler problems since some of the math is off putting to me. That's why I consider building something (like a side project or something of use).
Using C as a learning tool to better understand programming would be a great idea and I'll likely venture into that- hopefully something comes of it though! :)
I work on a team of 25-35 year old devs doing firmware/performance work for a BigCo - there are definitely plenty of people hiring in the space, but in general you only use C if you have custom hardware, and you only have custom hardware if you have a huge amount of capital, so it's tougher to find that work outside of established players.
Large amount of low-level embedded programmers are hardware designers who learned C because they needed it and usually use various weird programming styles, usually reminiscent of HDLs and PLC programming languages.
Other embedded programmers are just that, programmers who found a programming job that happens to be in this sector and learned the peculiriaties on-job.
Also bear in mind that there are different levels of "embedded" which ranges from writing code for some obscure MCU directly in hexeditor (as it is so obscure so nobody bothered to write assembler for it) to writing applications in Java for something that is essentially android tablet bolted onto some larger system (be it car, airplane or some industrial machinery)
Edit: also habing custom hardware is not that capital intensive unless you plan to mass manufacture said custom hardware. And almost any piece of custom hardware has some MCU programmed in C and/or device driver which is also written in C.
Over last 10 years I've participated on development of about 5 different pieces of custom hardware for various niche applications. This includes industrial sensors, IoT-ish stuff and somewhat peculiar reliability and security enhanced PC platform.
>> I've always been hesitant at many Project Euler problems since some of the math is off putting to me. That's why I consider building something (like a side project or something of use).
Math has the nature of simplicity -- well defined and little complication, but abstract (or useless).
If you like building things, I would suggest a text editor or a GUI layout engine. For the latter, think about an intuitive declarative way of describing layout (like HTML/CSS or TeX or Tk) then implement it on native win32 API or GTK. Focus on the simplicity and in-control aspect; do not get distracted by feature completeness.
> If you like building things, I would suggest a text editor or a GUI layout engine. For the latter, think about an intuitive declarative way of describing layout (like HTML/CSS or TeX or Tk) then implement it on native win32 API or GTK. Focus on the simplicity and in-control aspect; do not get distracted by feature completeness.
Both of these sound like great learning projects - but are they too far in the "deep end" for a beginner?
I wish there was a more modern version of Programming Windows by Charles Petzold that I could recommend for its great, down to Earth introduction to Win32, but unfortunately the fifth edition from 1998 was the last of its kind.
If you're OK with the dated context it's still applicable to modern Win32. You can find it used.
> I'm really looking to _build_ something rather than just going through a book or tutorial (although they have a place and time). '
It might be worthwhile to start 'small' by taking one of your C# projects and converting some small section into a native/unmanaged C or C++ DLL that gets used by the C# side. There's a lot of boilerplate involved setting things up on both sides of the divide, but you can stay in a mostly familiar environment yet start learning about some of the 'magic' C# handles for you that is exposed by the unmanaged code, and extend your experimental forays into the C side as you get more comfortable.
So, it depends on your objectives in programming. You don't need C or even C# if all you care is a job or an end objective (in fact, you would very much like to skip the programming part if possible). But if you care about programming as an activity of love, then the experience with C -- especially the one with few dependence of third-party libraries -- is uniquely rewarding.