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"Dirt grass and a goat get you a LEED point - does the dirt grass and a goat make it work better? No! But you do feel better about yourself! Dirt is not insulation it's just freaking dirt"

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lstiburek (https://youtu.be/iHBYvqr2_io?t=2224)

Gotta love greenwashing. A real forward thinker would also start a second startup simultaneously to undo the damage green roofs will cause down the line to a building. :)

Edit: In case somebody misses the point the video from which the quote is sourced is well worth watching if you are curios about building science.

tl;dw - What is efficient and good for the environment is counterintuitive. Green roofs often cause more harm than good because reasons.



I don't really like having to watch some youtube video, to get the counterpoint, all presented in a non friendly way.

So do you have some facts, you want to share, why green roofs, a method for example used in scandinavia for a long time, is bad, if done right?

Because you quote ... is not a smart one. Because dirt is definitley insulation. And soild is more than dirt btw.


I didn't mean anything in an unfriendly way. The quote is not dumb but it needs a lot of context I suppose that might be missing.. definitely the key point is "if done right".

I can't really condense the video for you, the guy in it does throw in a bunch of jokes from the perspective of a frustrated Canadian building science guy that might put you off but his information is great.

My best attempt at a condensed parable: I once found myself driving around with a very environmentally minded person and she refused to turn the AC on in her car but cranked open the window instead.


> the guy in it does throw in a bunch of jokes from the perspective of a frustrated Canadian building science guy that might put you off but his information is great.

As someone else who works with civil (but not structural) engineering in Canada, I agree to a certain extent with his points, but found his tone incredibly condescending and offputting. For example:

> Does the dirt, grass, and a goat make it work better? No. But you just feel better about yourself. I mean dirt is not insulation, it's just freaking dirt. If it was insulation we'd put it in our walls, and that'd be stupid. [...] 'well we can store water up there' - Why? You're an idiot. The whole idea of a roof is to get the water off of the damn roof.

- Soil is insulating, just with a very crappy K value. You wouldn't use it somewhere that was space sensitive (eg a wall). You wouldn't use it instead of other insulation. But it is absolutely an insulator (that's why we only have to put frost walls 4-8feet deep to prevent frost heave). If your only goal is to insulate the roof better, install an extra inch of rigid foam rather than a foot of soil, it'll work the same.

- Storing water where it first strikes is good for reducing site runoff (with safeties installed to cope with bigger rainfall events).

> I once found myself driving around with a very environmentally minded person and she refused to turn the AC on in her car but cranked open the window instead.

How fast were you driving? There's a breakeven point, depends on the car - I know with mine, it's about 80 km/hr (slower than that, open the window. faster than that, AC is more fuel efficient)


You got the gist of what I was saying which is physics is at play and the answer is always "it depends". But people don't like that. Hence, AC off I'm a good person. Green roof I'm a good person. 'etc.

> I agree to a certain extent with his points, but found his tone incredibly condescending and offputting

That kind of says it all, doesn't it?

Personally I found it good natured tongue-firmly-in-cheek conspiratorial humour. Considering he is an actual authority on the subject and has seen a lot of incredibly idiotic behaviour and expensive and downright dangerous mistakes I think you can forgive him if his comedy schtick is not to your taste as long as the info is good.

This talk is even better: https://youtu.be/rkfAcWpOYAA

He seems like the grumpy Linus of the building science world and if he is a jerk he is my kind of jerk.




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