Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Hopefully on topic: a good English language book on the CIA origin story is “The Devil’s Chessboard” that was a fascinating read. While most of my reading is technical and science fiction, I also really enjoy reading history. It is difficult to understand the world ‘in real time’ but looking back into history more things make sense.

In a democracy, it is important to really understand history, what we got right and what we got wrong. If we want a better world, we need to learn from history.



On the shorter side, there is a very good article from the New Yorker which was published last October for the 75th birthday of the CIA entitled "Has the C.I.A. done more harm than good?" [1]

The journalist is clearly verging on the side of more harm.

[1] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/10/10/has-the-cia-do...


[flagged]


> impossible to calculate the amount of good

Oh that's easy actually. It's zero.


It's good to give the author the benefit of the doubt, they may not have chosen the title.


To 95% of the mankind (cant believe i have to keep repeating this here, but folks here clearly think in US-only style often, regardless of their IQ, without realizing that what goes around comes around, without exception), CIA has definitely been a net loss and/or force of adding evil and fucking up entire vast regoins for generations, to exploit them easily later. There are so many stories out there, verified, even from their own people with some core moral values, its ming-boggling and definitely easier to just ignore to avoid depression.

Maybe some good is currently being done on Ukraine, but that would be just because russian top management is a pile of amoral dictatorial shit that is actually more stupid and more aggressive (which is always a very dangerous mix, especially with all those natural resources needed everywhere) than everybody thought. But thats just to subvert and bleed an old adversary for future power games, not some altruism. Real help would be much quicker to deliver and definitely possible, now its just as fast that Ukraine side doesnt collapse from lack of armaments and russians bleed people and resources for as long as possible.


>It is difficult to understand the world ‘in real time’ but looking back into history more things make sense.

Gotta be careful with this though, as when it comes to reading history, it really depends on what sources you are reading. The old saying "history is written by the winners" which leads to the opposing side's views being suppressed if not outright omitted. So hopefully, when it comes to "real time" views or historical views, the sources are from more than one viewpoint and are more than one.


This is largely why the academic study of history has become historiography, the study of how history is written, and by whom, and understood in which contexts. Academic history books, from university presses, are usually pretty different than the pop-history books or books aimed at general audiences for a similar topic. They are much more skeptical and questioning of narrative and are usually very willing to bring up counter-arguments or competing claims.

A really good example, one of my favorite academic history books, is When Champagne Became French by Kolleen Guy [1]. It's really more a history of how the story of champagne was integrated into the ongoing narrative of French national history and identity, and how this integration obscured the sometimes violent disagreements over the identity of champagne and who ultimately "owned" it.

[1]: https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/3029/when-champagne-be...


And, historical accounts can be revised both to correct issues and to spread false narratives[1]. So, when and not just by whom a history was written, and the context the writer was operating in is important too e.g., sources of funding.

[1] "[NELA in the United States] recruited academics to rewrite textbooks with pro-market, anti-government messages and pressured schools and libraries to adopt these rewritten textbooks. They funded academics to create new programs in high schools, colleges, and universities..."

https://nextbigideaclub.com/magazine/big-myth-american-busin...

random linkable source that quotes the book: "The Big Myth: How American Business Taught Us to Loathe Government and Love the Free Market" by Naomi Oreskes (professor of the history of science at Harvard University)




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: