No but communication is part of any effective process. Standup is just having everyone say what they accomplished yesterday and what they're planning on doing today. If you're on a team with more than three or four people, it's a useful way to get a quick summary of where everyone's at. Some people are good at letting other people know when they're stuck, but some aren't, and if you've got the latter on your team standup is a good catchall. Most teams, whether they're in software, sales, or sports, have some variation of the standup. Of all the scrum paractices it seems like it should be the least controversial.
No amount of process can fix bad communication. Standups are an attempt at that. Teams that have good communication succeed more, and standups aren't integral to their success. Teams with bad communication fail more, and standups can't help them.
Sales teams and sports teams don't work as a comparison, they aren't building something (sales is a particularly bad example, most sales team members are in direct competition with each other). I'm trying to imagine standups on a building site.
Tom: "Yesterday I.."
Everyone cuts Tom off and talks over each other: "No shit, Tom. You're gonna work today, too." "That insulation isn't going to unroll itself!" "Tell us, dear Tom, will you be screwing the sheetrock in with a DeWalt or a Hitachi?"
Good teams communicate while they build, and know where each other are.
Sure it can. If I've got a team member who can't be bothered to let people know what he's doing on his own, I can hold a standup every morning to make sure the information gets communicated to the team. If he lies every day about what he does, the longest he can go is one sprint before his work gets verified.
I'm trying to imagine standups on a building site.
I don't know, I think it goes something like this:
"Hey Tom, how far did you guys get on the roofing yesterday?"
"Only about a quarter of the way. Some dipshit ordered the wrong shingles."
"Ok, Bob will you get on that today so Tom and Dick can finish the roofing? How about you Fred, where are you at on the sheetrock?"
"Living room and kitchen are done, I should finish the bedrooms today..."
etc. Pretty much what actually happens at a construction site if the builder is competent.
I don't know what kind of standups you've been in but they sound like they were run by someone with no training or experience in the process.
Good teams communicate while they build, and know where each other are.
How do they communicate? What if Tom doesn't know what Dick's doing and Dick doesn't think to tell him because he doesn't know Tom needs to know? This doesn't magically happen even if everyone is individually a star at what they do.
"Sure it can... If he lies every day about what he does, the longest he can go is one sprint before his work gets verified."
That's not fixing bad communication. That's wrapping it up in process, and calling it "good enough". The team communication, and probably its morale and output, still sucks.
"etc. Pretty much what actually happens at a construction site"
That communication happens continuously, throughout the day. If isn't happening continuously, throwing a standup at it ain't gonna fix it.
That's wrapping it up in process, and calling it "good enough".
"Good enough" is certainly better than "not good enough". And it doesn't have anything to do with morale. The team's morale might be sky-high and they can still make mistakes because person A didn't know what person B was doing in a timely fashion. People have a tendency to overestimate their skills in general, and communication is no exception. Standups are just a form of insurance and cost almost nothing. Even if your team communicates like they're telepathic, 15 minutes a day in standup isn't going to hurt them.
If isn't happening continuously, throwing a standup at it ain't gonna fix it.
If I'm managing 5 job sites, I'm not there continuously. It might not be perfect, but once a day sure beats nothing. Most of the time when someone is doing something wrong, they don't know they're doing something wrong. No one is going to call me up and say, "Hey, I'm about to do something stupid and wanted to run it by you."
"Good enough" is certainly better than "not good enough".
In the scenario that you described, someone went from not communicating at all to lying every day, and getting "caught" at the end of a sprint. Standups didn't fix anything there. Also, there is a world of difference between calling something good enough, and it being good enough.
If I'm managing 5 job sites ... once a day sure beats nothing
If, as a manager of 5 teams, you feel like you need a direct, daily report of what every person on every team does, your life is going to be hard. If you attempt to control those teams by adding more process, you will interfere with the productivity of your good teams, and your bad teams will continue to suck.
The scenario isn't about the lying, I was just anticipating the argument that the standup wouldn't improve communication if someone wanted to subvert it. The basic situation---a teammate who isn't communicative---can only be 'fixed' by getting him to communicate. You might argue that I fire him and spend weeks looking for someone who codes as well, or alternatively hire a 'communication coach' to help him with his personal problem (I'm not sure what solutions you're offering) but I prefer the vastly simpler option of just having a standup. Which also solves the problem of good communicators who don't realize they've got something worthwhile to communicate.
We don't do standups to fix broken team communication. We do standups to augment ordinary team communication. If you've got an uncommunicative team member, that's not unusual. If you don't have an uncommunicative team member, now that's unusual.
If, as a manager of 5 teams, you feel like you need a direct, daily report of what every person on every team does, your life is going to be hard.
I may or may not need the report, but I want to make sure that every member of every team knows what's going on on their team. That's not adding process for process' sake, it's just ensuring communication rather than leaving it to chance or some utopian vision of human nature. A 15-minute standup isn't going to hurt a good team's productivity, while it could greatly improve the productivity of a mediocre team.
It can send a powerful message that the team is not responsible for producing the software.
Could you elaborate? I have a hard time imagining how spending a few minutes describing your progress and your immediate plans could possibly give you the feeling that you're no longer responsible for what you're working on. It seems to me that not ever being asked about what you're doing would powerfully convey that message.
Daily stand ups would be stupid in my current project.
Professionals should have a broad responsibility for the end result and appropriate freedom over the approach taken.
Externally imposed process creates a situation where professions are responsible for executing that process.
People ask dumb questions like "Is this Agile?". Who cares? The correct question is "Is this what makes sense to get the right outcome?"
My personal experience is daily stand ups are used as a tool to mandate a start time. This time was been inconvenient for staff with young children to drop at school. I remember hearing the sigh or relief from a person when they were dropped.
A 15-minute standup isn't going to hurt a good team's productivity, while it could greatly improve the productivity of a mediocre team.
It takes a lot to noticeably hurt a good team's productivity. But it's mean, just fucking mean, to punish a good, productive, communicative team with more process because you also manage crappy teams.
[I]t's mean, just fucking mean, to punish a good, productive, communicative team...
I didn't say standups don't benefit good teams; quite the opposite. You've missed (or ignored) my point that even good communicators miss conveying important information sometimes. And if the team is really so naturally communicative, they're hardly going to view a standup as punishment. Again, I have to really wonder what kind of standups you've been subjected to that would trigger your revulsion. It's like being violently opposed to eating with a fork. Technically, no, you don't need one but it often helps. Either way, it's nothing to get worked up over.
Oh, I agree. My language was for emphasis, not representative of an emotional state. It's interesting to talk to someone who thinks that the same process can save a bad team and make a good team better. That though had certainly never occurred to me.
