It's the Hisense A9 with a beautiful and fast Carta 1200 e ink display. It's very capable, I would have preferred a phone more like that instead. It's biggest drawback is terrible USA cell reception. This company was initially going to make a phone like this but apparently keyboards were much more popular in polls.
Thanks for this. I've been thinking about pulling my phone use right back. I was really wanting to use the Light Phone, as I like how small and minimal it is. The only problem is it doesn't run Telegram/Whatsapp which is kind of essential these days. This phone looks like it would be exactly what I'm after. How do you rate it overall?
Ideally I'd like something half way in between this and the Light Phone - small, stripped back phone that's less appealing to use (i.e e-ink with its grayscale and slow refresh rate introduce enough friction so it's not worth being on infinite scrolling apps), but still backed by an ecosystem like Android so that you can still access "essential" apps like Telegram/Whatsapp and Notion/PocketCasts and don't have to fully give up all the helpful progress we've made since 2005. I saw your other comment about the camera - it would also be nice to have high-end camera built in for taking photos and videos, even if I essentially can't look at them on the phone I'd still be happy to capture and sync them for use elsewhere. It's a fine balance. I'm hoping enough people start looking for this over the next few years to make the market worth targeting for manufacturers, but I'm not confident.
I absolutely love it compared to my current iPhone. Super comfortable eink display that looks like paper. Messenger works great with a monochrome theme. And great battery too since screen doesn't emit light. Love using it for reading, especially right before bed. If you want to learn more check out the r/eink subreddit.
Good call, when I upload my camera test video I'll include a small section of viewing the photos taken as well on the eink screen. But for still photos it will look pretty similar to how b&w mode looks like on normal phones.
Unfortunately this confirms my fear. I think I’d want to throw an e-ink phone against a wall after a while from frustration with the lag.
E-ink screen refreshes are just far too slow for something interactive. That’s one of the reasons they work great on e-readers.
I wondered if they were doing something special or had a different kind of e-ink screen that was faster in trade for some other property but at least the one in your video doesn’t.
Out of curiosity which part of the video makes you think the lag is unacceptable? It’s more like a low refresh rate. Sure scrolling is a bit slow so it’s much better to fixed length “page turn” with the volume buttons instead but I’ve really gotten used to it. If you are talking about me missing the tap zones on the touchscreen to scroll that’s user error :P
That’s what I mean. The lag between my action and the updated screen. Caused by the low refresh rate.
When you’re trying to tap the screen a bunch to get something accomplished if each step takes 250+ms extra just waiting on the screen it would add up to frustration fast.
As background information I used the slowest clear mode in the beginning of the video for Kindle/Koreader. I used a faster mode for the rest of the video. There’s also a speed mode intended for video but ghosting is really apparent on speed mode. The mode is set per-app.
How is the camera? I don't really care how the photos look on the device, but I would be sending them to family via Telegram and of course later on the desktop.
I do have other E-Ink devices (Boox, Nook) and I love them, so I'd love to get an E-Ink phone. But I don't want to carry a separate camera.
I have a Hisense HiReader Pro and it's awesome + super usable for actual day to day phone things on wifi, but the cell reception overlaps with a single LTE band in the US that's not really usable around where I live.
I'm the owner of a Light Phone II [0] and (other than battery life), the biggest downside to the Light Phone I can envision for most people is the absence of apps like Uber, Apple Pay and Spotify. I think 5G isn't that necessary on a phone like that, except maybe for future-proofing.
This phone seems to have a camera, though, and access to Play Store (although it will likely be messy) really sets it apart from most "minimal" phones out there. Plus, a real keyboard might attract the people who despise the on-screen one on the Light Phone. They're really devices of different classes at this point, though. The price does seem awkwardly low, however.
> the biggest downside to the Light Phone I can envision for most people is the absence of apps like Uber, Apple Pay and Spotify.
You've hit it spot on. I got a light phone years ago to help cure my cell phone addiction, but it was too problematic. I still need to use the "tools" of my phone - things like Maps, Uber, authenticator apps, texting, etc., but I just wanted to block the "dopamine dealers" like social media and the browser.
The best I've gotten to so far is to permanently enable "focus mode" on my phone. Of course I can still disable it, but I've noticed the number of times I just automatically start browsing the web or whatever when I'm even just a tad bored, and having those apps blocked is at least just a reminder to me of "Do you really want to do this right now?"
I'm with you. As I mentioned elsewhere, I'd have a Light Phone if it could use Telegram and a few other "essentials." Throw in a good camera and it'd be incredible.
At the moment I use greyscale mode on my Pixel and have uninstalled apps, only using them in the browser if I "need to." It's not much, but adding that small friction helps somewhat.
Some more friction, use a password manager and change the password to a really long string of characters, then don't install the password manager on the phone.
I tried a Light Phone as well and I found that it made texting so difficult it was basically useless to me as a phone. I then tried a basic flip phone which was more useful but ultimately still added too much friction to my life to be worth it. Now I'm back to my iPhone. It would be great if Apple created the equivalent of those minimalist Android launchers that allow you to remove distracting apps and simplify the UI. At the end of the day a phone is a tool and none of the minimalist phones currently in existence work well enough to be a useful tool for me.
> I think 5G isn't that necessary on a phone like that, except maybe for future-proofing.
5G is more than future proofing, at least where I am, 5G is deployed at new lower frequencies (taken from broadcast TV) that provide for more full coverage. With my new 5g phone, I have less dead zones than my old 4g phone.
5G New Radio (5G-SA) at 600Mhz (band 71) can deliver useful signal about 20% further than LTE on 700Mhz (bands 12, 13, 14 & 17).
We have seen this in action as many Cellspot and other signal booster users have retired these devices as the indoor and basement cell coverage improvements of 5G deliver better service than the DSL or satellite back hauled micro cells these users used to have at home.
I've had 5G turned off on my phone since I got it. There is a dead spot near my house that really annoys me any time I go anywhere. You're making me thinking I should try turning 5G on to see if it helps... but I really don't want to take the hit to my battery.
It's probably worth trying. I gather 5g on early phones is rough on batteries, but my phone is a 2023 and battery life seems fine with 5g on. (old phone was 2020 moto g power, new phone 2023 moto g stylus 5g).
If 4g only makes your phone get stuck searching for signal and 5g would find a signal, turning on 5g will help
These types of phones keep getting made and people keep not buying them in any significant numbers. I think people want to want this kind of phone. But it ends up being a kind of performance art thing / statement about modern society thing more than filling an actual demand in the market.
I've signed up and sent contributions to a few "let's build a phone!" projects (like, for example, the neo900). I've come to the conclusion that building a phone is just not something a small group of people can do on a small budget. They won't get access to good processors, etc, because their projected volumes are too small to interest suppliers. The project inevitably ends up being very, very late. They can't build many prototypes and test them extensively, so if something actually gets shipped, it will be buggy.
I've tried a couple of them. The problem is that they add so much friction to the basic functionality you want from a phone that they eventually become too frustrating to be worth it. Using a Light Phone gave me an enormous amount of respect for the work Apple has put into making their touch screen keyboard feel so responsive and type so "accurately" (by which I mean gracefully handle the inaccuracies that inevitably arise when typing on a touch screen). I just don't see a small startup ever being able to deliver a user experience that even comes close to what we've all gotten used to thanks to Apple, Samsung and Google. At the time that I bought a Light Phone I was desperate to be free of digital distractions but eventually I decided I would rather be distracted if it meant that I could effectively communicate with family and friends and maintain a social life without so much hassle.
While I don’t disagree with you, I think you have to be heavily plugged into tech news to even know they exist in the first place. I’d guess 99.9% of people have no idea such things exist even if they did want one.
My guess is that the people who want minimal phones buy feature phones. They are less of investment for lifestyle change, can be used as secondary phones, and have nostalgia.
I bet this phone would be more popular if it looked more like Blackberry.
You can do a lot of this on an iPhone if you use focus modes and automations.
I have a deep work mode that sets a blank Home Screen, turns off always on display, sets the phone to greyscale and only allows notifications from my wife.
It feels like something like this gets you most of the way there and you can then have different focus levels that ramp up potential distractions. All without carrying two devices or giving up the modcons.
Alright, I just spent the entire day on greyscale yesterday to check.
I think that I suffered more eyestrain than usual, mostly because I could not tell icons and other UI elements apart. Yet I don't have this issue on the E-Ink device, interestingly, even though I use many of the same apps e.g. Telegram.
I would say that the difference is due to the reflective vs radiative screen, not the greyscale palette.
Maybe it's a mismatch in requirements. For me, I move it into greyscale to give my monkey brain less reason to want to play with it. The intention when it's enabled is that if I need to set a timer or jot down a note that I don't get sucked into the device. When I'm done in a deep work mode, I switch it back to normal screen.
So for me, the whole point is I won't be using it enough to notice eye strain or something like that. If I'm messaging or doing something the device is designed for, it's a benefit for me to be able to have it in full fidelity.
On Samsung devices, there's is an option under the Accessibility menu. Then go to something like "Improve Display" (mine is in Hebrew, so that is a rough translation that might not be exact) and then "Customize Colours" (again, rough translation).
Additionally, I believe that there exists an additional method to enable greyscale in Developer Options if you have that enabled.
Most of it is just in focus modes settings: alerts, notifications and things like that.
For greyscale you use shortcuts. There’s an automation tab, you set up on a focus mode being enabled then “set color filters on” and then the opposite for that focus mode being disabled.
For me I use the accessibility shortcut, three presses of the side button pops up a menu so I can select color filters (grey scale) and reduce white point (80% is my default). I enable both when I am reading. It's really helped eye strain when I'm reading.
Ugh another minimal phone that tries to sell me new hardware.
I don't think there's anything wrong with current smartphone hardware. What I want is someone to reimagine the OS. My phone should be like a Startrek Tricorder - a very advanced tool that can assist me with anything. The key metric should be how much time it saves me... not how much time I waste using it.
What I don't want is spyware, ads, and interactions designed to maximize my engagement. I need to be able to use feature rich apps sometimes, but I also want very hard limits that I set on my social media usage and other time wasting activities. Every single blocker app completely sucks and needs to be implemented as an OS feature. Screen time on iOS isn't enough and Digital Wellbeing on Android is a joke. Sometimes I don't have the willpower to overcome the digital crack at my finger tips.
So bad I want a new OS to enter the market that reimagines my phone as just a tool and not the center of my life. Apple could do it and has the right incentives (kinda) but I don't understand why they don't make screen time more feature rich with an API. I've never owned an iPhone but I would finally switch if they did this.
Edit: I'm being too harsh to the creators of this phone. Clearly I am not the customer. I just want a solution that doesn't involve giving up useful tools like Maps.
I actually really like that the hardware includes an E-ink screen instead. It makes it really interesting for reading on the go without needing an additional device.
Problem is, most people so want that also don’t want to pay for it, let alone pay more for hardware or software than they do for the spystuff. So the vicious cycle continues
> What I don't want is spyware, ads, and interactions designed to maximize my engagement.
Turn off notifications.
> Every single blocker app completely sucks
Install 1Blocker (indie dev) and turn on the on-device firewall. Works like magic.
> Screen time on iOS isn't enough
Have more self control. ;-)
> Sometimes I don't have the willpower to overcome the digital crack
But seriously, use Screen Time to disable Safari. Just remove the web browser from your device. Make the Screen Time password something like “i am weak”. It works.
> I've never owned an iPhone
You can 100% get what you want with an iPhone. Just don’t install all the garbage, and if an app is useful but spams you (hi, Uber), turn off its notifications. Use 1Blocker and you’ll never see an ad, not even in-app.
Or do what my partner does: she basically lives in DND mode. Her phone hygiene is exceptional. She scarcely uses it. I never see her using it during the day.
I never use my phone for authentication. You can get Okta to give you the OTP secret (you gotta use a stupid QR code reader, but the number is there and you can stick it into a script using any Python/Ruby/Node OTP library).
I don't have Google services on my phone and Okta will just puke and die without them, plus work has no right to ask me to use a personal device for anything.
I appreciate these basic phones but what I need is something different. I would prefer 2 phones: a regular smartphone and a basic feature phone. Then I’d take the one I need when I leave the house.
The problem is you either need two lines with your carrier or swap physical sims. Swapping physical sims is inconvenient and means you cant use an esim.
Not exactly what you want but how about this setup: keep your minimal phone as your default phone with cell service. Whenever you head out use that. Your second distracting regular smartphone has no cell service. If you want to use that one either use wifi or bring both along and tether to your minimal phone.
The reality is that most people do not want to carry multiple devices around. Carrying some kind of minimalist phone for text and voice, and a tablet or other device for "apps" isn't really a great experience.
Yeah, or charge every night, or look for when you're in a hurry to get out the door, etc. Or buy, for that matter.
Probably what I'd rather have is a phone that has a low power low function mode, that I can configure what apps are available, and then a regular mode where everything is available. But to get to it, I need to convince a LLM equivalent of Seinfeld's soup nazi why I need it.
Yeah a phone with an easy toggle between "dumb" and "smart" would be handy, especially if "dumb" mode had greatly increased battery life, but I don't think it would appeal to enough people to motivate making one.
I mean, it could just be built into android, or maybe even an app with enough permissions. But agreed, even at that minimal level of friction, I'd probably turn it off most of the time, and deal with it via old fashioned self control. And for the times I'm out of control, just turn the phone off.
Isn't this literally already built into Android? Extreme Battery Saver effectively turns your phone into a feature phone, disabling every app except Clock, Phone, Messages, Settings, the Play Store, and your camera. And you can add other essential apps to the whitelist (e.g. I have my note taking, ride sharing, banking/wallet, calendar and TOTP apps enabled, and my music player if I'm on the go). It even degrades the phone's performance to match lol, and the added battery life you get from it is fantastic.
Might be a Pixel-only thing now that I think of it...then again I'm pretty sure other OEMs like Samsung would have their own versions
Probably. So given I haven't bothered to look up this feature yet, and I've established for myself I'd rather have this than a dumbphone, I don't think it makes real world sense to buy a dumbphone, even though it sounds pretty nice in principle, which aligns with what OP is saying.
I have a agm m8 flip that I have at all times for calls and text. And I have a pixel running grapheneos that I use more like a laptop / when needed.
Living without a smartphone isn't possible. But not using one for two or three days is.
Most banking apps require a smartphone.
If I'm out an about I will generally not have a smart phone unless I'm making an unfamiliar journey or something like that.
I've got through quite a few dumbphones, including the nokie 8110 (banana phone, but rooted with app store removed), Nokia 2660, cat s22 flip, agm m6 But all were sub par in some way. The m8 is the first that has ticked all the boxes for me. I love it.
One option that tends toward this is to have a cellular modem which tethers to the device of your choice. SIM is assigned to that device.
Voice comms go over a VOIP service such as Jitsi or whatevs.
Carry the VOIP device you want to use, whether a minimal comms-only device, or a more capable tablet or laptop which you can talk to.
A device which talks to a headset or transport-based option (e.g., your car's Bluetooth system) might also be convenient. The idea that you need a full-compute device with a high-res screen just to make voice calls is ... somewhat silly.
The main concern I have with this is the level of phone spam either now present or in the likely future. You'll want a comms system which filters out unknown and/or suspect calls. PSTN, of any stripe (POTS, mobile, VOIP) isn't cutting it any more.
I've always thought this was a good solution too. I'm not sure how difficult it is to have a cloned eSIM and have your carrier call/msg both devices at once for a small extra fee?
Use a service like Google voice to multiplex across phone numbers. Configure it so hitting the Google voice number hits both of your devices, so it rings whichever you have with you at the time.
> Yes, Minimal runs on Android, allowing you to download and use essential apps. However, the e-ink display and device optimization are geared towards minimizing unnecessary distractions.
That answers the only question I had about this. You still get full access to every app you need, it just increases the friction (via the low refresh rate and the lack of colors) so you can't doomscroll.
Unfortunately, it does not list Bluetooth among its many wireless features, so I don't think I'd be able to use it. Not having music or podcasts in the car or on a run is a dealbreaker.
> Entertainment will be kept simple as well, "focusing on relaxation and mindfulness." The handset will feature Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, with 5G currently being explored,
Isn't the form factor a little odd, or is that just me? How would you even hold that?
Make something with a wide enough screen (say, 2.5" wide) and a height that maps to a common aspect ratio (maybe 4"?), let it have some bulk (like... 1" thick?) and suddenly you have a distinctive object that has enough space for all the electronics + a decent battery.
I'm leaning more and more towards this myself, except for the fact I hate the look of most of them, and love my traditional watches. Maybe I could just keep it in my pocket. But it's ideal for what I want - GPS, WhatsApp, telegram, Spotify.
I’m waiting for the day I can have an Apple Watch without ever needing an iPhone to manage it, and an iPad to do real dev work (ie, Xcode for iPad) without ever having to fall back on a Mac/Book. I’ve been waiting for years already so now I’m not sure those days will ever actually arrive.
You could buy an older iPhone to use with it and just basically keep the phone at home in a drawer.
There is a mode for the watch that is designed to let you give them to family members who don’t have phones (think small children or maybe the elderly) but from what I’ve heard it’s a buggy hassle.
> The handset will feature Wi-Fi and Bluetooth, with 5G currently being explored
If this could be a wireless access point, I think that could be a differentiator. I would love a more minimal phone for daily carry -- but when travelling, it'd be nice to connect my iPad/laptop to an AP for those things that need modern apps.
Lack of 5G is a major oversight. The iPhone had that 4 years ago. Good condition iPhone 12 models go for under $300, and they want to sell this thing for $400.
Seems like it's better to grab an iPhone 12, set the screen to greysfale in the accessibility settings, and then turn on screen time to block social media apps and other distractions.
An OS settings preference selection isn't a product.
> Seems like it's better to grab an iPhone 12, set the screen to greysfale in the accessibility settings, and then turn on screen time to block social media apps and other distractions.
I love the aesthetic of phones like this, but I'm not sold on comments like this (from the reddit ama in the article):
> Its durability also means less frequent replacements, countering the disposable culture of modern electronics.
My starting point is that the most eco-friendly phone avilable to me is the one I already have. That comment reads to me as saying that if you have a fault you need a replacement instead of being able to opt for repair. I simply do not believe that a phone that isn't built to be repaired can be considered more eco-friendly than not buying a new phone.
The CEO has promised more information about repairability closer to launch and I hope they follow through; I would guess that compared to the average phone purchase the overlap of people who want a minimal phone and people who want a repairable phone is pretty high.
I don't know how you can call something minimal that is built on top of Android. This isn't going back to the basics, this is another complex abstraction layer added to the top of an abstraction skyscraper.
I have experience using the Motofone - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Fone . It was not the best of experience especially due to the lag which many have mentioned here. E-Ink displays have come a long way, hoping this time it is a better experience.
The problem with eink phones is that they're largely unsupported / using some OS that I don't trust.
I tried using my phone in grayscale mode for a while, but the complete lack of colours makes it difficult to use.
I'm working on making a "desaturated" mode that changes the android renderer to not go fully grayscale, but only a little, so there's still some colour information.
I would guess that a phone designed with an eink display will have visual design and UX that is more thoughtfully designed for greyscale than iOS or Android.
I was always taught that a design should be done first in greyscale to make sure that it works well using only alignment, hirearchy, balance etc, then you add colour; I still see that done frequently in print design, but less so in the digital world for whatever reason.
that is an interesting point; i didn't know that (about design in grayscale).
the issue with "apps are designed with e-ink UX in mind" -- how many stock apps do you actually use? where the manufacturer has control over how it's implemented?
Usually the apps that are used frequently are apps that are designed for big colourful phones. That's why i want to experiment with a "deglossed" or slightly desaturated version.
I've read positive comments about BaldPhone. It's aimed at elderly people, but I don't see reasons why it couldn't be used to make regular smartphones interfaces more usable for everyone.
https://baldphone.com/
Looks interesting. I’m fascinated by e-ink and the oddball devices which use it. I wish I had the cash to collect them all (though I did get a Remarkable tablet the other day).
As far as I can see, there’s no mention of a backlight. An e-ink phone sounds great but if you can’t see the screen in the dark that’s a problem.
Unfortunately those are all now bricked by the 2G/3G shutdown and nobody makes a phone with a similar feature set (i.e. absence of everything but voice calls) any more. The Jitterbug Flip 2 comes sort of close but it still has Alexa and other confusing stuff, and you can't buy it without an overpriced subscription.
I've been looking for a phone simple enough to not confuse some of my elderly family members and those phones no longer exist. So I'm constantly the involuntary tech support for whatever phone they use. I think of buying a cheap Android phone and writing a kiosk mode app that has no access to anything except dialing the phone. Maybe someday.
Stupid question, but how expensive would it be to turn a large surface from solar reflecting to solarabsorbing using eink. Like a house Southside becoming black in the wintermonths and white in the summer?
The mentioned price ($400) seems rather low for a new entry phone. I’d rather they charge a little more to give themselves financial to enable faster manufacturing and snag free deliveries.
I want this to be a success, but I really can't leave my iPhone. I love the design and simplicity.. just practically, I don't think it will fit my life.
I've got major doubts on a lot of these claims. Shimmying modern Android into an e-Ink display and physical keyboard is going to be a strange experience even if you truly want a zero-distraction phone.
Supposedly it's going to protect your privcy but they also claim you can just download apps from the Play store. Seems like a bit of an unnecessary promise.
Navigation with map apps in particular is going to be awful on the e-ink display. Really, a lot of "basic" non-social media non-addicting apps involve a lot of motion that plain and simple isn't designed for e-ink. Uber is highlighted as one of these apps that you might want to use without a distracting smartphone, but think about how much motion is involved with the Uber user interface when you use it. The whole interface plus the map is doing a bunch of smooth motions that do not take low refresh rates into account.
The physical keyboard basically has to be there due to the shortcomings of the display, but I think when you go back to physical keyboards on phones you'll quickly realize that they are awful to type on compared to modern predictive autocorrect. They also can't adapt at all to the specific apps on the system. Say goodbye to emojis, stickers, and GIFs when you talk to your friends! Imagine what Slack will look like on this thing, and that's an app I have to use for work!
Another odd claim is that the device will be $400 but be available with early bird discounts below that! That's an impossible price for an incredibly niche phone with heavily customized software.
One last comment on this concept: when you think about the most mainstream smartphones in the world, what is the most physically distinguishing physical feature on them – the one cosmetic feature that identifies the phone with a brand? That's right, the cameras. That's no coincidence: it's the most important feature of the smartphone. It isn't mentioned at all with this phone, and questions about it on the AMA were ignored.
At face value it seems like video calls and perhaps even sending simple photographs will be a major challenge on this phone. I think most people who want to curb smartphone addiction aren't looking to compromise healthy things like sending photos and videos to their family and friends.
I just get a feeling from the AMA [1] that this company is biting off more than they can chew.
Finally, it's plainly obvious that you can get all of the "unique" features of this phone by setting up simple OS settings, like setting your screen to greyscale and setting up screen time/disallowing social media app installs. Essentially, this company is trying to sell an OS preference pane as a standalone product. It will fail.
I totally agree with you, I'm not saying there shouldn't be the Play Store on this device. What I mean here is that in the context of the questions about privacy, I think it's odd that the company is making broad privacy promises while still claiming to give you the full Play Store.
They make it sound like it's a more privacy-concious device than a standard Android phone with Google Play Services, but in reality it's just an Android phone.
I see where you're coming from, but I think it's meaningfully more privacy-conscious if you're unlikely to actually spend much time in Play Store apps.
I realize it's a bit weird to say "we're more privacy conscious because we made the UX worse", but such is the inherent contradiction in all of these "a phone to make you less addicted to your phone" products. And although no one has cracked it so far, I do think there's a place in the market for a device like this.
E-ink has really come a long way, applications that involve lots of motion won't be that awful. I bought a Hisense A5C smartphone a couple years ago, which is an android smartphone with a (color!) e-ink display. I bought it as more of a toy/experiment, knowing it wouldn't support US carriers, to see what an e-ink smartphone would be like. I really ended up liking the concept.
I knew about the HiSense eink phones before, but this one makes me particularly sad. This would be a great device for me if it was well supported in North America. Alas…
Addressing a few points that have been raised about e-ink, apps, and Android, I've been using an e-ink tablet as my daily driver for the past three years (Onyx BOOX Max Lumi, running Android 11), and have a pretty good idea of the capabilities and limitations.
Overall, the device has been far superior to any earlier Android device I've owned for overall readability, usability, battery life, and satisfaction.
For a demonstration of what e-ink displays are capable of, see this video, which starts basic (static signage systems), and progresses through video-capable displays (not, it's true, high quality, but serviceable): <https://yewtu.be/watch?v=KdrMjnYAap4>
For e-ink tablets and mobile devices there are typically multiple display modes, which can be set on both a per-app and overall system basis. It's reasonably easy to switch between these where needed (e.g., on a Web browser). Higher-quality rendering comes with slower refresh, and there's a trade-off for visual quality vs. speed, but even basic animation is possible with only very modest quality degradation. "X-mode" for full video sacrifices a lot of quality, but you'd typically use that only for video-intensive apps (or occasional video viewing in a Web browser). The main side-effect is ghosting at higher refresh speeds.
Android devices can use third-party app stores such as F-Droid (VERY strongly recommended), with an independent selection of apps, or the Aurora Store alternative interface to Google Play Store which provides any Android app available through Google Play. I minimise the apps I've installed, and have avoided virtually all authenticated services (one article-managing app excepted), to minimise distractions, but have several installed from both sources.
E-ink itself does have its strengths and weaknesses. I like to say: Persistence is free; pixels are cheap; paints are expensive; refreshes are slow (1-8 Hz rather than 60--120); shades and colours are limited or nonexistent; line-art, dithered images, and half tones render quite well (raster and gradients far less so); paginated navigation is vastly better than scrolling; graphics are reflective rather than emissive; touch/Wacom may exist; and feature-detection capabilities are limited (e.g., CSS @media queries). It's a different medium, and rewards some adaptation of design principles. See: <https://diaspora.glasswings.com/posts/638a8d10e041013afba844...>.
I'd make one further addition: dark-on-light styles are hugely preferable to "dark-mode" (light-on-dark), which is far more difficult to read. Generally, e-ink prefers full black on full white styling.
I'll note that apps which are designed for e-ink, most particularly EinkBro (an adaptation of the FOSS Browser) make for a much superior experience: <https://github.com/plateaukao/einkbro>.
We need to reverse the trend of most people having a phone that's wired in with Google or Apple. I don't, and I can't tell you how often I try to do something only to be told, "Okay, now download our app and..."
It happened just last week when I was buying a car. The sales rep kept insisting that I install the car company's app while I was trying to just write a check, grab the keys, and drive off the lot. "You can use your Google or Facebook identity to make signup quicker!" Not only can I not actually install the app, I don't even have a Google or Facebook account. Eventually he relented and showed me "his wife's" car -- which happens to be the most expensive car on the lot -- on his own phone so I could see how the app worked. (His wife's car had an odometer reading of 6 miles per what I saw in the app running on his phone, but I'm sure she just hasn't had a chance to drive it yet anywhere except home from the dealership yet.)
For situations like that I usually have to tell them, "I don't have a phone with me that can do that." Then they get really confused, convinced that I have no idea what I'm talking about that that all I have to do is open the App Store and search for the app. The problem is my "App Store" is F-Droid. Why on earth I wouldn't be cool with just handing over my privacy to Google or Apple is completely lost to them, and most of the time I have neither the time nor desire to try to explain it to them. So I just end up coming across as some weirdo asshole by refusing to "just install the app."
We need more people using phones that respect their privacy and that don't have an umbilical cord to Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, etc.
I think car salesmen are particularly pushy about it because car manufacturers are starting to sell monthly subscriptions for things in the app. They can't sell it to you if you won't install the app. For instance, my Toyota came with some kind of trial subscription for a remote unlock/lock and GPS location service. Served, of course, through the Toyota app. They have an incentive to get you to install the app that goes beyond just not thinking it's a big deal.
Email I got today:
> Your access to Safety Connect and Remote Connect services will expire unless you access your Toyota app or call 1-833-914-0992 to extend your subscription. For as low as $8.00 per month, you can enjoy the convenience of Safety Connect or Remote Connect. For further savings, you can choose an annual plan.
I won't be doing that, but it makes the reason for the push to install their app starkly clear.
The car I bought last week is a Toyota. Upon getting home I immediately followed the instructions on the sticker near the center console to hit the "SOS" button and request deactivation of their telematics services. The rep on the phone mentioned something about how she needed to create an account for me or something before she was able to process the opt-out and then, I guess, did so.
Of course I have no idea what this opt-out does. The skeptical part of me suspects that the system still collects and transmits my location and such, but then they simply don't trivially attach that telemetry to my account.
I'm also going to try pulling the DCM fuse that's supposed to cut the cut the gateway/telematics antenna. I also plan to wrap the transmitter in a Faraday cage.
Well, I’m just using a flip phone and keep the iPhone in a cupboard at home without a sim, so I can use that one app once in a blue moon instead of dancing around the problem for half a day.
This is a big part of the reason I carry a flip phone. Instead of explaining that your "otherwise smartphone looking thing" can't run Apple or Android apps, I just have to whip out the flip phone, flip it open, flip it closed, and say "Sorry, my phone doesn't have apps."
... even though it's running Android 11 Go and I can sideload stuff, it doesn't matter because the number of apps that work on a 320x240 screen with keyboard input only are "roughly zero." Even if there's no good reason it shouldn't work, nobody tests or designs for that case, so there I am.
By the way, the dimmers are working great. And I finally found BR30s that don't sing. It's amazing to me how many of them do. Have you tried Syncthing yet?
Glad to hear it! The singing bulbs are a new, and quite unwelcome, development. It seems to relate to the number of filament supports.
I've not messed with Syncthing - I've been more trying to drive my life offline and spend less time messing with computers. I had a very "Work on computers to maintain the computers I find less-objectionable to use the internet a little" sort of circle going, and I decided to break out of it. So I'm x86/Qubes for now, and it's honestly a lot less work than the ARM stuff I was doing before.
These boutique pieces of tech are bound to fail because they don't stand upon the shoulders of giants.
We see it everywhere in the phone world: phones aimed at the elderly have buggy horrible software and become quickly abandoned; modern feature phones are buggy, slow and incomplete because nobody in their right mind assigns their best engineers to the dumb phone division, not Nokia, not LG; plus small companies like Mudita, Punkt, Light and others don't have the know how to produce a complete device.
The only real solution is the true "hacker path"of taking existing perfected and mass produced technology and achieve your goal with a few small modifications. If your goal is to have a basically "dumb" experience, why aren't you getting a bunch of 5yo Xiaomi phones, follow the extremely safe guides and flash LineageOS without Google Services on them? And maybe pair them with a SIM card with no data? This way you get a snappy phone with actually usable offline applications (and you can sideload the ones you truly need).
These phones remind me (a bit) of the Windows vs Linux arguments. There are a lot of appealing aspects to these phones but switching to them is really impractical for most of the population.
"The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation" -Thoreau
I understand caring about the huddled masses if you're trying to mass-market something. Here, as with so many other threads on hn, I feel like it's fine to acknowledge that most people won't be interested.ñ and then move on to discussing the subject at hand which invariably is going to be interesting to more significant portion of hackers.
I love this product idea, but the device itself isn't the hard part. Already pine64 or random Shenzhen supplier could do this, getting a UI (android or otherwise) is going to be the challenge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvO9ScTdwz8
It's the Hisense A9 with a beautiful and fast Carta 1200 e ink display. It's very capable, I would have preferred a phone more like that instead. It's biggest drawback is terrible USA cell reception. This company was initially going to make a phone like this but apparently keyboards were much more popular in polls.