I went to a new dentist when I was 18 because my other dentist was unavailable. He declares that I have two cavities and fills one, but doesn't use enough anesthetic. Given my bad exp with him I went back to my other dentist who's flabbergasted that there was supposedly a cavity on the other tooth. No sign of any decay.
These kind of experiences are why I try to vet a new dentist very hard before trusting them, even going so far as to getting a second opinion if the new one finds anything.
When I was 12, I was scheduled by my regular dentist to have two cavities filled. It was the first time I had anything negative in a dental checkup. We were very poor, so my dad was pissed that it was going to be almost $400 to get them filled. He found a different dentist that was supposed to be a bit cheaper, and I went to that one instead. He was shocked to hear that I had been scheduled for two fillings. Since I was a new patient, he did x-rays, which showed zero decay. The dentist that lied about me having cavities is still in practice today more than 20 years later, and has 4.5 stars on Google.
I fear there's not really a good way to vet Dentists effectively since most people probably never find out that they've been scammed for years. I'd love to learn some new strategies though.
> I fear there's not really a good way to vet Dentists effectively since most people probably never find out that they've been scammed for years. I'd love to learn some new strategies though.
It's something the government should be doing; running sting operations against dentists with compliants against them. Unfortunately, dentists and prosecutors are in the same social circles.
I like the idea of that proposal, but I'm not sure how it would work in practice.
The problem is that the crooked dentist will argue that the "bait" patient has in fact have cavities. And then if the prosecutor finds somehow convincing evidence that the patient does not actually have cavities the crooked dentist can change tactic and say it was a honest mistake on their part.
With other crimes where "sting operations" work the situation is much more clear cut. The target of the drug sting is either selling drugs or not selling drugs. If you find drugs you can easily prosecute them. With the dental scam even if you manage to catch them red handed once, it is still a long and complicated process to prove it was a scam and not a mistake.
Or alternatively we can legislate to make making mistakes with dental diagnosis illegal the same way having large batches of drugs is illegal. That will make the prosecution easier, but will have all kind of other negative consequences.
It could be done. You do a first pass of a significant number of dentists, with people with confirmed healthy teeth, and then do a second pass on every dentist who recommends fillings. Caught scamming twice? License suspension. Repeat offender? Jail time. The odds of such a program putting an innocent dentist in jail gotta be near-nil.
There's no shortage of people who would damn-near volunteer for the work, given how many of us have had multiple run-ins with crooked dentists.
Even if it cost, say, $10k to catch each scumbag dentist, the ROI to society would be tremendous. Catch enough dentists in the space of a few months, apply appropriate consequences, and the whole culture will change.
That said, in reality the dentists would 'hire lobbyists' to kill anything like this.
Could it be done as a non-profit perhaps? I mean we clearly can’t do the licence suspension and the jail time that way but we could maybe shame the scammers?
Hahaha I love it. Extinction Rebellion but for dentists? ... How about "Extraction Action"?
The main issue I foresee is that there's just so much to be outraged about in the world now. People are using shameful behavior to distract from worse shames - it's been weaponized!
So, making a significant impact in a crowded 'shame market', across a tightly controlled media landscape, generally requires a highly skilled dedicated team.
I was wondering about this problem since this thread; specifically, wouldn't it be rather easy to use big data techniques to catch dentists who are way outside norms?
And after looking into it, it seems that insurance companies, Medicaid etc have been doing exactly this, and catching some pretty big fish. It's new for me to give insurance companies much credit for doing anything good, and I feel weird now. Real enemy of my enemy stuff.
I wonder if there is room for a service that just performs X-rays and passes them through some kind of AI model as a kind of a "dental fizz-buzz." Surely they wouldn't have any perverse incentives in that case.
Oh man. I would dearly love to see scumbag dentists lose their ability to easily scam vulnerable people, often desperate and in pain.
That said - I'm sure they have tight regulations on who is allowed to X-ray teeth, and diverse ways to keep their own in line should they threaten the apple cart.
Ever heard of nano silver fluoride? ... Exactly. (Unless you saw the HN story on it here recently [0].)
Exactly the same happened to me when I was in my teens and next thing I know my dentist has drilled pretty much most of the good teeth under the name of cavity. In my 40s now and I am still paying for it as I now have to keep on visiting a dentist every year because of my constantly broken fillings. I have paid a lot out of pocket and the insurance has paid a lot on my behalf to the dentists.
The cost of each filling nets the dentist $100+ and each patient now becomes a repeat customer and serves the dental industry for life. There is no ethics in this space and it's unfortunately a BIG SCAM.
My school dentist always botched the anesthesia, and afterwards I had to grind my teeth for three days to make them fit together again.
I never told anyone because adults kept saying dentistry hurts so I assumed it was normal. I didn't realize how fucked up this was until I went to college and experienced a competent dentist for the first time.
Not sure if the anesthetics have got better or if it's just a skill issue, injecting it in precisely the right place?
I had problems way back in the 90s with them not working too well on me. But my current dentist gets it perfect every time - properly numb very fast, but remaining fairly localised.
I had a similar experience -- went to a new dentist, they found two "cavities", tried to hard-sell me into getting them filled right then. I declined, never went back to that practice, and 10 years later my teeth are perfectly fine.
#notalldentists, of course, but there are certainly unscrupulous ones out there, and not just a few.
That was apparently their purpose back when we lost teeth more regularly - it's only with modern dentistry that they become a problem for being "extra"
It was not an intentional replacement or anything the dentist did. I had my back molars pulled and then a few years later while trying to start flossing again I noticed they were back and basically in the same position. I doubted myself for a moment if my memory was failing. Just such a slow long process.
Exact same thing happened to me as well. I now travel very far to go to a dentist that I can trust. It never even crossed my mind that this would be a possibility when I was younger.
I am pretty sure Ive had cavities taken care of that were not cavities. Ultimately its a small procedure and nets the dentist a few $100 bucks - and the patient can't be bothered to get a 2nd opinion.
Maybe this is where AI helps with analysis of x-rays. Is there really an urgent issue? Or can it wait?
I'm unclear on who is using AI in this scenario. Are you going to use your own AI on your X-rays, or expect that the dentist will use a new tool to tell them to not do the procedure to get them more money?
Probably the latter scenario. Its a hypothetical - but it could happen if health records move increasingly online and if enough patients demand that level of control.
Some dentists want to fill "crevices" that may become a problem later, others wait until there is a problem. I've been fortunate to mostly have dentists that were happy to just do the semi-annual cleaning and annual xrays and nothing more than that unless I had a complaint or they spotted obvious decay.
I've been to some awful, painful, overly-expensive dentists that acted more like car salesmen than dentists.
I finally found an honest one that prioritizes my comfort and doesn't charge me an arm and a leg, and I've been a customer for over 20 years.
I moved to a different city a few years ago, but I will still drive 1.5 hours in traffic to go see my dentist (I'll try to book outside of rush hour though).
I did try one dentist close to my new house, and it was awful. It reinforced my confidence in my regular dentist. Never going to anyone else as long as I live.
Once you find a good one, stay with them as long as you can. Not all dentists are the same, it's no joke, some are just there to rip you off.
Dentists rushing with the anesthetic is my biggest pet peeve with them. They always try to blame you in that you're special and need extra. I know there is some element of that, but it's mostly rushing
These kind of experiences are why I try to vet a new dentist very hard before trusting them, even going so far as to getting a second opinion if the new one finds anything.