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I think it wasn't just AMD winding down production of that SoC, but also that the Intel NICs being used on the APU2s (i210 and i211) were also getting hard to come by. Given how well designed and built those devices were, _especially_ at the price point Pascal sold them at, it's incredible to me that they're not everywhere. There really is no alternative, even at 2-4x the price point, and I'm surprised that AMD and Intel aren't trying to build more hardware to facilitate these sorts of devices, given how much pressure ARM has kind of put on lower power devices.

I definitely hoarded a bunch of APU2s when the final run was announced. There's just little or nothing you can get your hands on that works as well as they do.



Hopefully the re-industrialize [1] movement can inspire a new generation of board designers, learning from Pascal and research hardware like NetFPGA [2], which lead to commercial DPUs/SmartNICs.

[1] https://www.reindustrialize.com/resources/attendees

[2] https://netfpga.org


Why reinvent the wheels over and over again?

Just port coreboot, or something similar to the likes of https://cwwk.net/ which have done the hardware part sufficiently.

Or even better, organize to have some group/org paying them to port it to their HW.

Or/and get https://bootlin.com / https://www.collabora.com involved,

if they are disinterested, have them coordinate the effort.

They should know how to do that, instead of wasting time with reverse engineering all sorts of crap.

Apply same due dilligence to the firmware running on the NIC/switch.

Then continue with the 'optics' in the SFP+.

They are 'smart' nowadays, and often run Linux, or some RTOS, too.

See https://pon.wiki/xgs-pon/ont/bfw-solutions/was-110/#boot-log for just one example.

Diz iz dä äyge of phybre.

Äye vanna häff lain speed! Arr!


Do you know if CWWK x86 routers disable Intel BootGuard to allow coreboot? They have:

  capex: ~3X APU2
  opex: higher TDP
  manufacturing: China instead of Taiwan
  PCB design: China instead of EU


No, I don't.

But there is https://github.com/StarLabsLtd/coreboot/blob/24.12/Documenta...

which is basically the same shit with a different label.

So it should be possible.

CAPEX? Dunno what you are comparing these against? While I've never had an APU2, I considered them a looong time ago,

with 4GB RAM, and 4 NICs (or 3x & 1 SFP+) and just thought are you drunk/on crack/crazy/stupid because of the price at the times.

Which may have been because of greedy distributors/resellers in niche markets.

Completing them with cases, PSUs, and the rest of all the little things which go into them.

Those Changwan/CWWK/Topton/Whatever/lookalikes go for 200 to 300 Universal Credit Units with 32GB RAM, Case, PSU

depending on where, when, and how you get them. Aliexpress sales/coupons, or directly sourced from CWWK.

OPEX: Depends very much on the phase of the moon during design&assembly, the quality of their BIOS (Broken Initial Operations Setup),

the later mitigations of those by correctly configured most minimal Linux/xBSD, if SFP+ 'optics' are used or not(adds 2 to 2.5Watt per port),

borked kernelversions, 'smart' dynamic powermanagment not interfering with usage, multiplied by micromanagement of drivers, and so much more... …

(Speaking of N100 here, without coreboot or similar OFC)

Manufacturing: Why should I care?

PCB design: See above. Also economies of scale, mass production vs.'artisanal snowflake'.

Some more bait for you, since you're obviously interested, and I feel like it :-)

https://www.servethehome.com/tag/cwwk/

https://www.servethehome.com/tag/topton/

https://www.servethehome.com/intel-core-i3-n305-and-n100-2-p...

https://forums.servethehome.com/index.php?threads/cwwk-topto... (have fun ingesting 138 pages with comments and following up the links therein)

Also reddit #Alder Lake #N100 in r/homelab/minilab/MiniPCs/networking/HomeNetworking/HomeServer/SelfHosted/PFSENSE/whateverelse*

Edit: Also, because I felt like it:

https://yanling-store.en.made-in-china.com/product/zXPETvVub...

( https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101257843 )

( https://www.ylipc.com/ )

vs.

https://eu.protectli.com/product/fw6d/

Scroll down -> Specifications -> Bios: BIOS AMI® or coreboot

Yawn... …

Where was I... …?

Never mind... …

( https://www.iwillminipc.com

https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?spm=a2700.galleryofferl...

https://liliputing.com/this-small-fanless-pc-is-built-for-ne...

https://www.qotom.net/product/RouterPC_Q20331G9S10.html

Get the gist?

... … (to be continued by some other nerdsniped entity) )



Thanks for the Qotom Q20332G9-S10 pointer, a buffet of network and storage paths. Lots of innovative mini PCs out there, but it's hard to match all the APU2 checkboxes and price.

Intel finally relented a little on ECC segmentation to Xeon, with N97 [1] and i3-N305 CPUs having an in-band ECC controller. In theory, a NAS like [2] could use Ryzen Embedded V2000/V3000 with ECC, and a discrete TPM for measured OS boot with owner-defined keys.

As an existence proof of what's possible in quality compact hardware, SolidRun has a Ryzen Embedded fanless line [3] for industrial customers. As motherboards condense into a collection of SoC chiplets, edge hardware should continue shrinking.

On practical note with current hardware, a used Lenovo Tiny with Intel vPro and low-profile PCIe slot can have a quad NIC for routing, with Thunderbolt/USB4 to external storage for NAS usage. That includes TPM and DRTM, but still lacks ECC.

[1] ODROID H4, https://www.cnx-software.com/2024/05/26/odroid-h4-plus-revie...

[2] https://aoostar.com/products/aoostar-r7-2-bay-40t-nas-storag...

[3] SolidRun Ryzen, https://liliputing.com/solidrun-bedrock-r7000-is-small-fanle...


I'm ambivalent about the necessity of ECC in practice.

Especially since the internal pathways in CPUs already have it, and with DDR5 the DIMMs also have it, at least internally.

So that only leaves the path between RAM and CPU unprotected.

It would be nice to have, but maybe only to be able to feel good about it.

Depending on airflow, temperatures, quality of the contacts/slots/soldering, board layout, quality and

(more and more so with ever larger units on smaller process nodes) amount of RAM raising the probability of errors.

Regarding Lenovos tinies, I have several (dozen) M910q t(inies) with either core i5-7500t or core i7-7700t with 32GB (non-ECC)in use across my two homes, and am very pleased with them.

They run everything I've thrown at them without any errors. Giving the most clean kernel-bootlogs ever!

Cool&silent but still fast. Even most exotic stuff like Genode.

Really flawlessly working S3 (suspend to RAM) every time without exception, btw.

Can't tell for contemporary Windows, though, but don't care because no need.

Somthing like coreboot with the quality, correctness and functionality of their UEFI on cheap CWWK-like stuff would be a dream come true ;-)




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