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Well that’s the nice thing about capitalism.

If it doesn’t work, it eventually dies.



>If it doesn’t work, it eventually dies.

Unless it is a bank, in which case it gets bailed out by tax payers.


Yeah.


...and that's fine, because banks are highly regulated.


Are they though? There seems to be a lot of talk about relaxing various regulations bought in after the 2008 crash. Did we learn nothing?


>There seems to be a lot of talk about relaxing various regulations bought in after the 2008 crash. Did we learn nothing?

"relaxing regulations" =/= not "highly regulated". We can quibble about what the exact amount of regulation is ideal, but I don't think the core concept of "the economy benefits from a banking system that is backstopped by the government, and the government should regulate banks to ensure the backstop isn't being abused" is controversial, contrary to what the parent poster was trying to imply with his "Unless it is a bank, in which case it gets bailed out" comment. Similar thing happens in insurance. If a ship sinks in rough waters the owner gets reimbursed by the insurance company, nobody makes snarky comments about how ship owners are being "bailed out".


>If a ship sinks in rough waters the owner gets reimbursed by the insurance company, nobody makes snarky comments about how ship owners are being "bailed out".

The ship owner paid the insurance company a premium.

It isn't clear to me that banks are doing anything comparable. They are paying some tax, but so is every business.

For a bank the calculation seems to be heads I win (trebles and massive bonuses all round) tails you (the tax payer) lose. Given this situation, from a game theory point of view, why wouldn't they take reckless risks, if the regulations allow them to?


>The ship owner paid the insurance company a premium.

>It isn't clear to me that banks are doing anything comparable. They are paying some tax, but so is every business.

From wikipedia: "The FDIC charges premiums based upon the risk that the insured bank poses."

Moreover even if the government provides this for "free", it's hardly the only example where the government provides an implicit subsidy to some group by not levying direct taxes. For instance Louisiana probably gets more FEMA aid than Idaho, but when was the last time you heard someone making snarky comments about how Hurricane Katrina victims got "bailed out" by the federal government?

>For a bank the calculation seems to be heads I win (trebles and massive bonuses all round) tails you (the tax payer) lose. Given this situation, from a game theory point of view, why wouldn't they take reckless risks, if the regulations allow them to?

That's exactly why the regulations are there for, to mitigate the moral hazard. The same exists for insurance, which often comes with various provisions the insured has to follow. For buildings it might be having working sprinklers and annual inspections of fire alarms. For restaurants it might be training/inspections that are over and above what the local jurisdiction requires. Of course, just like banks the insured are also incentivized to do as little as possible to comply with the regulations. Nobody is going be inspecting their fire equipment once a month, even though that'd probably reduce the fire risk by some non-zero amount. Any sort of insurance is going to have this issue.


Cannot understate how absolutely enraging it is every time "basic economics", "supply and demand", or "basic capitalism" comes up as a thought-terminating response despite everything government does to keep failing stuff going


Capitalism for the poor. Socialism for the rich.


The belief in a rational market approaches religion.


Some might even say social science


A "discipline" where you can say just about anything because there's no way to prove or disprove it.


The dissolving of the Soviet Union gave the neoliberals hubris or something and as they dwindle the ones left seem to get crazier.


Death and rot are inevitable, it’s the friends we make along the way that matter most.


And the not nice thing about capitalism is that it can keep not working longer than most of us can pay for rent and food.


Unless its a monopoly.


can you please define "does not work"? and give some examples of things that died because it didn't work?


Literally any company that went bankrupt? Before iPhones there was the Blackberry, now the company is basically defunct.


Nokia

AOL

Blockbuster

Pan Am


> Nokia

I mean… if you define "does not work" as "place my own guy in a high position so he can make it stop working"… sure…


Mark Fisher's "Capitalist Realism" proved this wrong in 2009.


Wasn't that the bunk which was basically "It is all capitalism's fault that despite having a great power and our entire careers dedicated towards finding an alternative we cannot find one?".


Uhhh...No, it's more like "we're keeping the corpse of capitalism around and pretending it to be alive because having to accept that would mean completely revisiting modern society".

In the last 40 years capitalism has stopped being an economic model and has become theology. I mean, sure, it lasted way more than soviet communism before ending up in the same way, I'll give to it.


... and when it does, it usually takes a lot of innocent people with it.


Capitalism failed in 1929 but its corpse is still here…


Speculation failed, and then the proceeded government spent the next 8 years doing everything they could get away with against free markets -- tariffs, taxes, bonds.


The developed countries were mostly capitalistic up until the 70s. It just only started to die at the 80s, and it's still going strong on a few countries.

If you mean that a socialist structure was created on the 30s, yes, it was. But it didn't kill capitalism. Relentless corruption and cronyism is what killed it, the socialism in fact depends on it to work.


Depends on who you ask. Today's billionaires would disagree.


They're getting plenty of handouts from the state. What we have is not capitalism…


If that were the criterion, then capitalism never existed. Capitalists have always been happy to embrace "communist" ideas when it serves them.




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