I'm not single and haven't been fora long time, but my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking. Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps, so it's harder to find people in the real world. Not impossible, obviously, but getting banned from Tinder is kind of a big deal. (Also all these apps are owned by the same company, I think it's the Match Group.)
No offense, but bullshit. I've personally never once in my life used a single dating app and have met plenty of dates and love interests the old fashioned way, by interacting with them in the real world after random encounters (bars, events etc) or through circles of friends. Most of the people I know met their own love interests in the same way. I don't live in some backward country with little app use either. What a sad existence it would be to have something as fundamental as one's romantic life depend on a shitty, arbitrary and parasitic data collecting app that feels it has the right to treat its users like cash cattle with no recourse for any unfair ToS decision it makes. Grotesque.
If over 50% of people (and growing) say their relationship started on OLD [...]
I just skimmed the article, but it seems to say that even among the youngest age group only 48% have used dating apps and only 17% were in resulting relationship.
> If over 50% of people (and growing) say their relationship started on OLD, it's easy to say you're limiting your options by not participating
A does not in any way imply B. I strongly doubt that a non-negligible number of OLD users restrict themselves to using only OLD and automatically reject in-person advances. OP's "options" are still the same as before: all the singles in his physical meatspace.
> I strongly doubt that a non-negligible number of OLD users restrict themselves to using only OLD and automatically reject in-person advances. OP's "options" are still the same as before: all the singles in his physical meatspace.
You're assuming that a non-trivial number of people who use OLD aren't exclusive to OLD. Who's taking issue with that?
OTOH, saying that one's set of available dates is unchanged by foregoing OLD is deeply flawed. You even mention "physical meatspace" which OLD directly overcomes.
While I'm not a big fan of Tinder, monetizing romantic/sexual interest is nothing new. In fact, it's historically been the norm rather than the exception. The "Monetization & Defenestration" approach may not have been done through a shitty app, but a shitty date can you get kicked out of a bar, a concert, a restaurant, a nightclub, etc. for no reason and with no recourse for your money back even if you've done nothing wrong. I don't say this to justify these acts, but to acknowledge that they exist. While I hope OP fights the charges, $20 is a small sum to lose in comparison to a $200 concert ticket.
You'd be surprised with what's perceived as unaffordable for many "poor" college students and early-career professionals, many of whom are helped by student loan money and the Bank of Mom & Dad. In my experience, bad financial decisions in the pursuit of lust isn't one of them.
> my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps, practically speaking.
This is definitely not true.
> Even the norms around dating, picking people up in bars, etc. are changing because of these apps
This is true.
> so it's harder to find people in the real world.
This is sort of true.
By not using a dating app, a single person is relegating themselves to how things were pre-app. Some of those pre-app options are less common now, other new ways are more common.
The apps widened the dating door for certain people, specifically for people who are not particularly keen on getting out and meeting people (probably quite a few folks like that on HN) as well as people who are looking to get married asap[1]. That said, for people who get out and do things, meeting people to date is not difficult at all. Getting banned from Tinder for those folks is, at worst, a loss of a time filler activity (swiping).
I will also add that, of the apps, tinder might be one of the worst in terms of quality match ups.
[1] Apps are also good for highly desirable dates since their pool goes from big to biggest, but those folks aren’t really the topic here since they aren’t short on access to dates with or without an app.
Dating exclusively by apps might be reality for the younger US populations.
There was a thread on Reddit a few months ago where people were asking bad places for men to approach women. It was basically
Work
School
Gym
Church
Any place you go for hobby
Public transport
Shops
Bars
Anywhere outside at night
Parks
The consensus was basically the women on this Reddit thread don't want men approaching them in any way whatsoever that isnt a dating app. All alternative s were creepy. Now Reddit is mostly young and American, so who knows.
Sure. It widened the options for most people. Excellent!
That said, as the post I originally responded to suggested, I don’t think that getting banned from Tinder or any dating app in particular is a “big deal”. Maybe a minor inconvenience for most people, but it’s not like someone who gets banned from Tinder is doomed to a life without dates.
To save someone a click, so there is a study indicating 40% of couples “met online” (so via Twitter, IG, HN, Reddit, gaming, WhatsApp groups, etc., not necessarily dating apps); and then a study specifically about online dating apps where most participants were recruited online (in addition to the usual selection bias) so I didn’t bother checking results. Both are US-centric.
To reiterate, the first paper does not specifically pertain to dating apps, and the methodology of the second article is flawed (you want to know whether people meet online, so you ask people of whom >50% you found online, great technique)—so it might save someone who cares about that kind of stuff a click (a few clicks actually, since the methodology is buried in a separate article). If you don’t fall into that category, feel free to move along.
And I don’t know the author of the second article personally, but if I did of course I would point out an issue with their data.
It's an EXPLICIT footnote! See "Note; Here [is the report's] metholodgy."
> Methodology of the second article is flawed (you want to know whether people meet online, so you ask people online, great technique)
The methodology goes into statistical techniques to control for biases (e.g. language, gender identity, sampling method, etc.) See Methodology > Weighting about what they did with their ~5k responses.
1st click to go to the article, ctrl+f to find methodology, 2nd click to go to methodology. See 6000+ people recruited via web. The rest seem to amount to fewer than that. Am I the one being difficult?
if you're in north America, take heart that its not your fault! The American dating market is absolute garbage.
I've been traveling around the world the last few years and have had no problems finding casual hookups and longer term relationships. I'm currently dating a beautiful Colombiana. I would have thought she was out of my league if I was still living in the US.
People can't handle truth and I'd rather not be downvoted to oblivion.
Suffice to say, the american dating market is heavily geared towards attractive white men over 6 ft tall. They better also be a millionaire if you're in the bay area.
I'd suggest traveling like I have to southeast Asia, Europe and latin America for extended periods of time and see for yourself.
> Suffice to say, the american dating market is heavily geared towards attractive white men over 6 ft tall. They better also be a millionaire if you're in the bay area.
haha thats probably very true. I'd say don't give up!. travel as well, it'll enrich your life and make your more interesting to that special someone when you finally meet her. I wouldn't be surprised if you meet her in your travels.
What you're actually saying is that you are unable to compete in the American dating market, and so you're moving to other less competitive dating markets where you might be more highly valued. Obviously since this is HN we can't consider the female perspective, but if we consider the female perspective, the American dating market is probably pretty good because it offers a great number of attractive white men over 6 ft tall.
It's not specific to the USA, in France the situation is the same, most of the young women want the 'alpha male' so if you're not one, you have to wait until you're older..
It made being young much less pleasant than it ought to be, plus it means that we were a bit old when we had children..
That’s interesting. I wonder how much that applies to South Asians though. I think most of the dating advice in these threads is tailored towards white people who have different experiences from other POC.
I am south asian (srilankan american) so my advice is comming from the perspective of a person of color.
The best places for dating for a south asian male would be southeast asia, turkey and latin america. White guys definitely have an advantage when going after women that specifically want a foreigner. We're able to get the ones that would otherwise prefer to date within their own country.
I had some success in europe but it was hit or miss. I'd say it was a pretty neutral experience, I felt like the deck wasn't stacked for or against me on average. latin america on the other hand was where I had my best prospects.
In my experience, latinas in colombia love the way we look. If I asked 10 women on a date, I'd easily get at least 8 to say yes and show up while white foreigners I met in medellin would frequently complain that colombians were flakey and prone to cancel at the last minuite. The exact kind of behavior I'd get from white women in america. These days I have one that I absolutely adore so I'm off the dating market but every day I'm shocked that I have her because living in america drove into my head that someone as smart and beautiful as her was completely out of my league..
From my experience (being a lesbian myself), I found my fiancé on a discord server, and most of our friends also found their partners either through LGBT bars, LGBT online communities, or through art communities, tumblr, deviantart, etc ^^
Yeah, there are some unique wrinkles for me. I do like Discord a lot, actually. (I used to spend a lot of time on IRC so...) Most of the things I like, the Discords tend to skew pretty young for my dating comfort, since one issue I have is women who want therapists/mothers instead of a partner.
The other is that I work in politics plus have a politically-diverse family and so I would need a partner who is comfortable being around and loving people who disagree with them politically. Many LGBT people in queer nerd spaces like Tumblr, fandom spaces, art spaces, etc. prefer to live in a political filter bubble (I'm not judging if it's for mental health reasons; I think people have the right to associate with whomever they want), and that's not compatible with my life direction or values.
Being a statistical minority within a statistical minority is exhausting sometimes. I'm super happy you and your fiancee found each other, though! I hope you have a wonderful wedding and many happy years together.
And no LGBT bars in my area. I am NOT a big city person. I gave it the good old college try. I tried multiple countries and coasts, even, but nope. I'm a small city person. I like my hometown. It's dope and the cost of living is low.
> my understanding is that if you're single you can't really opt out of these apps
I understand why so many people believe this. But pro tip: if you want to opt out of dating apps, the key is to learn the skill of asking for what you want.
Ask the cute person at the coffee shop if you can have their number. Ask the person who's number you got out for a date. Ask the person you're on a date with if they want to kiss, etc. There is an art to successfully asking for things, and you have to get comfortable with people sometimes saying no, but the key really is that simple: just ask!
It's actually easier in real life to get a date with someone you find interesting, because you're not limited by who the algorithm decides to show your profile to, you're only limited by your willingness to ask.
Yeah. I'm off the "market" for 15+ years, but I really worry when I read about normal-seeming 20 year olds (or even younger) who met their partners on Tinder. It's something that's going to affect young people whether they take part in it themselves or not. Ruthless markets in relationships probably aren't going to make them happy.
I don’t think that is correct. I’m in London and have an American girlfriend. We met and got together the good old fashioned way. Getting pissed at a pub together.
Picking up dates in real life is not only still completely doable, but probably easier these days due to the sheer lack of competition from men who just have no idea how to do it.
My thoughts exactly. It’s like some of these people have never gone out on weekends or even had a chat with a woman randomly at the gym, supermarket, at cafe, out for a walk. What’s the problem? Just say hi and be normal. If she doesn’t seem interested, smile and move on!
